You’re the PROBLEM but You’re Also the SOLUTION

Meredith Bell: 00:00:00

Amy, thank you for tuning in to The Ultimate Coach podcast, a companion to the transformative book The Ultimate coach written by Amy Hardison and Alan D Thompson, each conversation is designed to be a powerful wake up call, reminding us of what's possible for you and your life. So if you're on a journey to expand your state of being, this podcast is for you.

Ipek Williamson: 00:00:37

Welcome to another episode of The Ultimate Coach podcast, I am your host, Ipek Williamson, and today's guest is someone whose presence, story and way of being deeply moved me from the very first time I experienced him on stage at the ultimate experience event in Arizona last January. Seth pepper is not only a former World ranked champion swimmer and mental performance coach, but he is quiet powerhouse of wisdom and presence, from discovering his path at the age of 14, starting what many would consider too late to becoming one of the fastest swimmers in the world. Seth's journey is nothing short of extraordinary, but what makes him truly remarkable is not just his achievements, it's who he is being in every moment. Seth has mastered the inner game, his curiosity, humility and ability to listen deeply have allowed Him to guide Olympic athletes, world class performers and top professionals, not by telling them what to do, but by helping them uncover the greatness already within them. Whether you're an athlete, a parent, a leader, or simply someone committed to becoming the highest version of yourself, this episode will awaken something within you. Seth, I am so honored to have you here. Thank you for saying yes and being with me today.

Seth Pepper: 00:02:18

Thank you for having me and allowing me to share the journey with you, I appreciate it.

Ipek Williamson: 00:02:24

Thank you. So I see the phrase unlimited your potential, on your website, on your LinkedIn profile, and I see it right behind you on your background right now, it's not unusual to have a statement a phrase as part of one's brand. But in our initial conversation, you mentioned something that stayed with me about that phrase. You said that phrase has lived in you since the age of six. Where did that come from? What is the story of six year old Seth,

Seth Pepper: 00:02:59

Well, I wish I knew, you know, it's a constant exploration to try and understand, you know, what you know, has always created a curiosity in me, which is patterns, you know, I've always been interested in. I used to, could say this study of motivation, you know, really trying to help unlock people, you know, and to expand that pattern as much as possible in and I think that that's just, you know, something that's always been the most important thing to me, you know, when I was a young child, I just remember with, You know, the kids on the block, you know, we'd be out riding our bikes, and maybe we set up a jump. And I was always this kid that was, you know, not only trying to jump it farther than I'd ever jumped before, I was trying to encourage others and, you know, try to see what winning, you know, unlock their potential. So I think I've always been curious about, you know, what is potential and what motivates one person, and you know, what blocks another? I think we shared in the initial conversation that my mom was a contrast to that to, you know, she was clinically depressed. And so I think it started an early curiosity of, why is my mother, you know, why is she different, and what is the difference? And I'm extremely motivated, you know, what is that? Where does that come from? So I think I've always been been curious about that. And then, you know, as I got older, in in being in school, traditional school, I just didn't feel like I really fit in. I kind of struggled. I was one of those kids that like to talk a lot. You know, is always looking at things and pulling things apart and examining. You know, things and and didn't really fit the structure. And I was always, my dad always had these self improvement books, and I'd go through these self improvement books, and I'd find ways of speed reading and increasing your memory, and all these fascinating things that I I wasn't learning in school. And so I think that's what created this sort of curiosity outside the structure of, you know, what does it look like if you could help someone to just be their, you know, their full potential?

Ipek Williamson: 00:05:34

And you know, said when I listened to you and from our first conversation too, it feels like you always were curious about, how can I help someone to feel better, starting from your mother, as far as I can see, and it continued along the way and made you who you are today, or your formation of becoming so beautiful. Thank you for sharing this, and you know you began swimming at 14. It's a late start in the sports world, right? It's considered as late, and yet, you became a national champion in just four years. So what inner qualities or practices helped you transcend what many would see as a disadvantage?

Seth Pepper: 00:06:30

Well, I think I started with the curiosity again, of being the student of the sport rather than being someone that had a history because I had started so late. It really was this open book and really kind of pointing into the future. My obsession was the Olympics. How do I get there? What's the most direct route to get there? And I think everyone has, you know, the people around them, the environment that will, you know, basically embrace that and interesting enough. My parents didn't push me at all. They, neither one of them were athletes, so I never was encouraged to do athletics. They my dad built guitars, classical guitars, and my mom, she was an author, and so they were artists. And I just remember watching the Olympics and really falling in love with, you know, this, this celebration. Now I understand it, because I eventually did get to go and, you know, observe the Olympics and be around it. Now I know what the attraction was. The Olympics looks like. It's about sports, but I really think it's the celebration of humanity when we really come together, and just happens to happen around sports. So for me, it was using a sport as a vehicle to get to that celebration. And so I started late, but I didn't see it as late. I just saw it as Can I, you know, it was always a question, rather than I have to or I need to. And so my dad, again, with those self help books, he had a book that was on the power of your mind, so it was on memory. But he came to me with a small little chapter on what I believe was the beginning of sports psychology. It was this study that was done on basketball players in Australia. They had three groups that they tested over a few months, and they were shooting a simple little shot of free throw. And so they had one group that all they did was do this activity over and over and over physically. They had another group that was the control group that didn't do anything. And then they had another group that all they did was exercise their minds, nothing physical, just purely mental. And after those few months, they tested them again. The group that was physical training was an improvement of 24% the control group had no improvement. And then this group that all they do is train their mind. They were 23% so only 1% lower than the physical. And so I got this idea perfect timing. Well, if I combine the two, won't that give me the advantage? And so that's where I started from. And also, my parents were big dreamers. You know, they were really into manifesting, and, you know, just this idea of creating your future. And, you know, so I grew up with all those types of books of expansion, and so I came at sports, kind of like an, you know, manifesting result, I guess you could say. I where it was, again, just, how do we do that? Now we know a lot of these things. So people are really pretty familiar with vision boards, but back then, no one was doing vision boards. This is decades ago, but what I started with was, I'm gonna go get a picture of an Olympian. And so I did. I went to Sports Illustrated. They had this, you know, swimmer in there. His name was Pablo. Put Pablo on the wall, and then I took a picture of me, and I put me on the wall, and I put it so we were touching, so that I would see this every day. And it was just this reminder to think about it. And so it was pretty simple. And then, as you mentioned, I eventually did become the national champion. And when I became the national champion, and again, this is the manifest world full circle. Pablo is the one that showed up the award ceremony and handed me the trophy. So he came off my wall and handed me what I was at that time. That was, the goal was to win the national championship. And then, you know, a he came into my life a second time, and then the second time he came out of retirement, and we both were competing to make the Olympic team, because that was the dream to begin with. And he handed me defeat that time. So he went to the Olympics, and I was the alternate for the Olympic team, and I watched on tip television as my hero went on to win the gold medal. So yeah, it's been an interesting journey, to say the least. But I really believe, you know, the power of the mind. I always, you know, I don't take that lightly. I mean, that's always been this curiosity of you know, your thoughts become your words become your actions, and that you can create your, you know, basically Manifest your Destiny and, and you know that that's really a curious place to do that in a sports, because sports can be measured, so we have metrics. So it's really fun to be able to test these and have, you know, basically facts you know, these figures to be able to say, Okay, this is a before, and this was the after. So my brother, he's two years younger than me, and so, you know, he started following me to the swimming pool, and he didn't start until he was 17. Most people, as you were saying earlier, they start when they're six, maybe even younger. And so here we were. We were teenagers, and, you know, my brother was later teenager, and so again, it was my parents. They they weren't really, they were loving and supportive, but they weren't driving us to practice. They weren't going to our swim meets. You know, this is a very stark contrast to what you might see. You know, nowadays, no soccer mom or soccer dad, but, but it was perfect. I loved it, you know, I had to ride my bike 10 miles each way to get to work out it, but it, but it was my journey. It was my, you know, adventure I was all in, you know, and each time you go and ride your bike that far you get to the workout, you're not going to waste that workout.

Seth Pepper: 00:13:32

And so my brother, at the age of 17, started swimming. And so We're originally from Oregon, and I went to the University of Arizona, so there's, you know, a distance between and so he became basically the kind of, I guess you might say, my first client, you know, way back when, where I wanted to help him from a distance. And so I started, you know, working with visualization, and I'd make scripts for him, and I'd say, okay, you know, get, you know, back then it was tape recorders. Get out the tape recorder, and, you know, this is what you say. And then I want you to take that tape, and I want you to listen to it over and over. And I want you to tape these affirmations on your mirror, and I want you to say these phrases, you know, you know he did it, and eventually he went to the University. And, you know, again, I always look at the mind as a doorway, and I'm trying to help people to keep that doorway as open as possible. And so he gets to Nationals, and he's in the outside lane. No one knows who he is, complete, no name Dark Horse. And it was really simple with him. It was your brother did it. You can do it. And that sounds so matter of fact, and it is, but in that moment, I. When pressure, everything's on the line, he doesn't need to know who's in the race. He doesn't even need to really know this strategy. He knows he's done it so many times. This is basically, go do what you're meant to do. And he dove in and, you know, took the start or took the race the whole way, and we became the first brothers to ever win the same national title in the history of swimming. And we started crazy late, and we were able to do in a really unorthodox way. And so, you know, a funny little story my brother, after he had done, you know, what was considered the greatest upset of the entire national meet, the announcer came up to him, and, you know, he was still in the water and got down and said, Wow, that was the greatest upset at the meet. You know, is, is this your biggest moment in your life? And I remember my brother looked straight into the camera, and he said no, and he scrum away. And it kind of left the announcer, you know, without much to say. But that's really the truth. We always kind of live this truth, very matter of fact, his dream actually was to have his own show on the Discovery Channel. So he was always an outdoors is an outdoors person really outgoing. And so what we did is we used the same things that we used to be successful in swimming. And I just said, why don't we just try this? And the next thing you do, because his first love was this idea of being on TV. And so we went out and we filmed in between practices, we would go film him, you know, just doing his own little featurette, small version of his own show, and I would edit it, and then I'd put the logos and the graphics like it looked like it came off the Discovery Channel. And now I realize that for me, when I was doing the, you know, putting the picture of Pablo on my wall, that was this form of the vision, you know, and drawing your destiny closer. And so we were doing the same thing. We were just doing it in video form. And so we posted that, and within a couple of years, the Discovery Channel contacted us, and he got his own show on the Discovery Channel. And I point out that it's specific to the Discovery Channel. It wasn't national Geographica. Eventually it shows on all the different networks, but the first one was exactly what we had put out there into the world. So I've seen these results, and they're not just based in sports. They go across the board. So it's been very interesting to help people really manifest their dreams, manifest results. And it's fun to be able to, again, have those, you know, metric based results from sports, because everyone seems to relate to how simple though they are, because, because they're looking for proof, you know, and tap, I think, is really exciting. And you

Ipek Williamson: 00:18:24

know, it's so understandable, because where attention goes, energy flows, right? So when you bring those figures into your life, into your reality, and looking at it all the time, like Pablo for you and Discovery Channel for your brother, or sports successes, it is exactly what you focus on you are calling into your life, and they start to appear in your Reality. That's that simple. And now, nowadays there's this mind movie trend going on. I don't know if you have heard of it. It is like vision board on steroids, because they are videos, and it is simply possible to create anything. And I want to ask you something like, it's obvious that you are a believer in the power of mental training and your own journey combined visualization and mindset work with physical practice. In your view, how does being influence doing, especially for athletes and high performance, the way they show up, how they feel, who they are. How does it impact their potential or performance?

Seth Pepper: 00:19:56

When I started working with people, whether it was my brother or other. Years after, I'm always very matter of fact. And, you know, to me, it just has to make basic common sense. So I usually start with some form of a goal. You know, I have a goal sheet that I'll take people through, and I combine the goals with, you know, it's a connection between your subconscious mind and your conscious mind. So your subconscious mind. An example of this would be, you get in the car and you drive to the store. Okay, all you did with your conscious mind was, decide, I'm going to the store. You do something extremely dangerous, extremely complicated, to go out there into the traffic, even if you know, you know exactly, I go down the street and then I turn you still don't. You can't predict who's going to be out there, but we don't really think about it. And so and then you might multitask. You might take a phone call on the way. So that's how sophisticated this subconscious. I call it the super computer. And so what I'm trying to do with, you know, the the goal sheet is to, again, keep a metric based A to B. What do you want to go do? Right? And what we'll do from there is we will turn them into because I like to, I want to make everything as effective as possible. And so I turn the goal sheet into what I call I am statements, my inspiration. I grew up with Muhammad Ali, as you know, not only a great champion, but a great human being. And so I studied Muhammad Ali and fell in love with him. And he famously would look into the camera and he'd say, I am the greatest. And that always stuck with me. And then later, I found that he admitted that he was doing an affirmation, that he was saying that well before he was heavyweight World Champion, and he was trying to convince himself. So when he was saying it into the camera, it was more like a mirror where he was really repeating this phrase over and over. So if you start to get into the science of you know, and I keep my science really simple, you know what we say to ourselves, you know, we're the most familiar voice that we'll ever hear. Okay, and with human beings, familiarity is authority. When you think of your parents and they you hear their voice a pretty good amount of authority, you know, just out of that familiar tone to their voice. Well, you're way more familiar to yourself than your parent, even your parents will ever be. And so that's a power. And so when people say something negative to themselves, that's incredibly destructive. When someone says somebody that's, you know, uplifting and empowering, that's incredibly powerful, constructive, and so that's what I'm trying to harness with each goal. So we turn this metric based goal, which communicates the A to B. I want to go the store, you know, example. And with that, we are saying over and over together. So when I meet with people, we say this together, I am, and then you fill in the blanks. Now, why I am? I first person singular again, if you're the most familiar voice and you're saying I, you're going to grab your attention more than anything in the world, okay, am, okay. It's present tense. On purpose, it's not I will, it's I am, I'm already so in a sense, I'm being and so once we say this, I am the champion. I am the greatest. And you say that enough times again, that trusting voice of your own voice, you are steering that only your thoughts, but you're steering your identity, okay, so working with a Formula One race car driver like to give examples, and he's working on braking, okay, so that's when they put the brakes on going into the corners. And so our statement is, I am the greatest breaker. Okay, what does that mean? That That means everything to a race car driver. Now, what does that do? It's so powerful because as he says this, and we say this every time we meet, over and over, I am the greatest breaker. I am the greatest breaker. I am the greatest breaker. His. Identity is shifted to where I am the greatest breaker, right? I've heard it so many times, and then what your subconscious a supercomputer will do, because it doesn't know the difference between possible and impossible, right? So it doesn't know any sort of contrast. It just basically accepts whatever you've been feeding it over and over. So if I'm the latest breaker, and I'm coming into a corner, I am going to come from that identity. I'm going to in an in an instant, I'm going to reverse engineer being the greatest breaker, right? And that's how powerful it is. I'm being the greatest breaker. And then you end up with those results, you end up winning the race, you know. So I use the power of that self talk and talk it into existence. I mean, that's a phrase we hear a lot, but I've really seen it be this very practical, you know. How do we steer our thoughts and then, over time, shift our identity, what we say to ourselves, right? And and so that's really powerful. So for me, what I try to do is normalize our goals, okay? And what does that mean? I help someone get into the NBA basketball, and I said to him, if you think this is a big deal, you're only gonna be there for a week. You're gonna be star struck by, you know, the stadium and all the millions of people watching you. And then, you know, you're, you know, it's probably gonna change pretty quickly, because you didn't really just step in and take control and and be the NBA player, and so I would, we have a mantra, it's no big deal, because you're the real deal, right? And we say this all the time. Our words, you know, shift our thoughts and our identity, and we're normalizing the NBA, right? And as you normalize it, you step into it, rather than having to reach up for something that's out of reach, you know. And so the power of these goal sheets, I'm seeing it over and over, because each time I meet, I always save a new version of it under a new date, because I know they're going to evolve over time. I'll go back six months a year and get an old version of the goal sheet, and then I will show it to them, and you'll see this shock on their eyes, you know, on their face, because they've become their goals. It's not a it's not an achievement where all of a sudden, oh my gosh, I won. Then it's super obvious. Sometimes you have that, but a lot of times it's really subtle, where you step into being whatever that goal was, because you normalized it. And that's when I try to get across is that I want this to be super normal, you know? And then once you realize, oh my gosh, I remember when this used to be like mind blowing, and now I'm just, I'm doing, I'm living it. I'm being it. It's not just an achievement. Then I have them go before and after and just switch before after, before after, just to really feel like, wow, this was a before, and this is the after. And then I try to leverage the future goal and say, Okay, well, if that's possible in the past, then what's possible in the future. And again, trying to level up, normalize the future

Ipek Williamson: 00:28:41

It resonates with me really well, because I experienced that kind of thing in my life. And I'm a late bloomer too. I became a coach at 49 like five, six years ago, and I'm living the dream because I figured it out I'm a good manifester, and not only because I'm special, but because every human being has that power. And the more I found myself manifesting things that I at once idolizing, I realized my power even more, and then it became so normal to manifest things and and then, like my being is, I can create anything. I can make anything happen, as long as I really want to do it. And I so believe in human beings set and we have so much power and with the right amount of motivation, and you and your brother are the proofs of that we can do anything. So I so believe in human beings when. They have the right motivation, right amount of willpower, they can create anything. And you also describe life as a flow of patterns, expansion, contraction and intelligence behind the scenes. Can you a little bit speak more about how recognizing patterns become a spiritual practice for you, and how it influences the way you support others.

Seth Pepper: 00:30:30

Yes, okay, so with success, there's a lot of failure, there's way more failure. So I did become the national champion, but I was second the first two years before that, right? So I was everyone might say, Oh, well, to be second at Nationals, that's a big deal, and it is. But you know, perspective is up to the individual, so second place can feel like last place. And so I was coming into my last opportunity, and I remember the day before was terrible, because we have three, three days of competition. So the day, the first day, was complete self sabotage. It was so ugly. And then the second Day rolled around, and that was when my big race was happening. And I remember I stood behind the start, and my aunt, who was visiting from New York City, she had never seen a swim meet. She was a nurse, and, you know, she'd never seen me swim, and so she said, behind the blocks the start, I knew that you had already won the race. And so, okay, what that's curious, she said, Because of how you stood, there was a level of poise that you had when you stood there, and you know, like an authority, just with your energy. And that always stuck with me. I'm still talking about it decades later, what was happening internally is that I had been close a number of times. I had had that disastrous day, the day before, where all of a sudden, just something washed over me, and I remember, I don't cuss a lot. You know, it's not moral, really been my thing, especially back then. But I remember, and I won't cuss for for your audience, but I can, I can say it another way is that I stood behind and I said, f this race, f these people, I'm effing taking this right? So fill in the blanks. So now I call the F switch, which is, it was just a moment of transcendence. It was, it was a moment of peace. Those words sound aggressive, but they weren't they. They were just basically, now I understand it. I have been living by external rules. You know, an example is, it takes this many times or this many years to do this. And, you know, we live our life in a way that, whether we know it or not, we're trying to get a grade, we're trying to get approval. We're trying to get acceptance a status. You know, it starts when we're really young, and we come through these systems. But if you want to be the best, if you want to win in life, you have to break all those rules. I get a little emotional about it, because it's a big, big moment for me, where I just realized that all those rules that I had followed from the outside and then all the rules internally, that was the F switch was basically saying f all of this, I'm just gonna go take it. And I got up on the start, and I don't really remember the race, and it went faster than I even knew was possible. It was like being in a race car and suddenly discovering you had a whole nother gear, the ethic gear. And I I missed the American record by two inches. I won by over a body length. It was incredible. So for me, what I do now is I realized what that was. You know, when, when we, when we watch Star Wars. For example, Joseph Campbell was a great mythology historian that helped George Lucas to, you know, structure, Star Wars, and the mythology is there. You know again, is pattern recognition to help guide humanity. And you know help you to believe that you know you're not alone in this journey. And so when we watch Luke Skywalker and. Is his mentor, his guru, his coach, you know, Obi Wan says to him, use the force, trust the force, where that comes from, is allow the life force to flow through you, right? That it's not about you. So my effort switch was my first like, you know, touching of this, this power that was well beyond my identity. It was an experience where you allow God, you allow spirit, you allow energy, you allow something bigger than you. It doesn't matter. It's non denominational again, it's, it's the force, the life force, whatever you believe in, that's something beyond just you. And once I touched on that changed my life forever. And so it's been very interesting to get people to that point, because the ego will do all this preparation, I mean, all these sacrifices. I did all of this. I'm the fastest that's qualified. I'm all these different ego things and seeking control. Yet the irony is, the paradox is, is that, in order, the only control you get is to give up control, and so you have this jumping off point. You know, a phrase that that I like with people is, let go and let God right? And when you're on that edge, when you're about to jump off the precipice, I think it helps to have someone say, you know, you're going to be okay. This is it. This is this is the jumping off point. This is the process, trust the force. And if you go back and you watch the original Star Wars, Luke Skywalker, right before he is, you know, shooting down that corridor to blow up the Death Star. You know, he hears in his subconscious is inspiration, is Obi Wan's voice saying, trust the force. And what does he do? He puts away the guidance system, the computer system, which is symbolic for the ego, the control the knowing, and he allowed himself to go into the unknown, to trust his instincts, allow that life force to flow through. So when I was younger, someone said to me, a mentor said to me, decades ago, said to me, you're going to be a preacher. And I thought that was really curious, because I didn't go to church on a regular basis, and I wasn't someone that was currently studying the Bible, so that really seemed to come out of left field. And as I've done my work, now I realize that that's true, that's that's come about, that a preacher of performance. So I'm guiding someone into a space that will follow their belief, whatever that might be, God's Spirit, energy, if it's person that's, you know, just completely scientific, it's the subconscious mind, but something beyond you is going to flow through you, and you're going to be more of the observer than you are the participant. It will happen in your body, but you will have an outside presence that you'll that you'll experience. So that's been exciting is guiding people not just to winning. You know, it's this winning experience, and it doesn't have to happen in and win.

Ipek Williamson: 00:38:34

So, well said, and I so love the metaphor of Star Wars and Jedi mentality. One thing I want to ask you is and the reason why I'm asking this because it might help many you peak between two Olympic cycles and didn't make the Olympic team. So how did you navigate that heartbreak.

Seth Pepper: 00:39:02

When I was done with swimming, I started having debilitating panic attacks, and it came out of nowhere, you know, which, which they usually do and, and I had always viewed everything as having a purpose, you know, some sort of evolutionary perspective of, okay, I'm not broken, and that's the way I work with people now, I just don't, you know, I start with, you're not broken. We just need to take the time to figure this out. And this is here for a reason, and it's going to be a blessing in disguise. I know it's confusing, you know, at the beginning, but all problems, all puzzles, are like that. And so I went into a program, you know, repeat exposure program, which is basically just like a little group. And we all had had triggers, you know, the trigger is what creates the fear. And so mine happened to be in a car. Are and others were, spiders, elevators, you know, you name it, because eventually it's not about the trigger, it just becomes fear of fear. And so in this supportive group, we would do a lot of journaling in between meeting, and then we would encourage each other to go out and take baby steps to what had triggered us before initially. Because basically what you're trying to do is you're trying to see how your mind is working when you get triggered, so that you can become more self aware and take back your life and go more and more in through the baby step process into this, you know, self torture trigger in a good way. And so that's what what I did. And I discovered that I knew who Seth was when I was a swimmer, right? Seth the swimmer everywhere I went, people identified with me that way. And within that world, I had a lot of control, and it was like a laboratory environment. The swimming pools were always the same length, the conditions were more or less the same. And if I worked really hard and I did everything correctly, I would see some version of a result. But Seth, the human being, I didn't know at all, and I didn't know anything beyond the swimming pool at that time. And so when I went into life, I tried to do life like I did swimming, and it didn't work. It didn't work as fast and it wasn't as controlling and all those sort of things. So the more you try to control life, the more life tends to spin out of control. And so the blessing in disguise was going through this process of discovery, you know, with panic attack, is I realized the only way that you can get control is by letting go of control. And so that was, you know, that changed everything. There was beautiful. And still, to this day, I use that on a regular basis, because the fear doesn't go away. I just say, you can smell it earlier. And so what I have found is that, you know, I didn't go to the Olympics like you pointed out, and that's a very important part. I just had a great conversation with Eddie Jones, who's one of the greatest rugby coaches of all time, World Cup, all of the, you know, as in. And he said, after I worked with someone on his team, he said, how, why do you think you're so effective? Which was a great compliment. And, you know? And I said, Eddie, I think it's because I didn't go to the Olympics, because I did a lot. I did an incredible amount, but I didn't get that, that last golden ring, and that created this void that's been very helpful for me to be able to continuously try and feed that with my curiosity, and then at the same time, I can sit with someone and not know I'm uncomfortable, because unknowing is uncomfortable, but I'm not scared of that discomfort, and I can go into it with each person, because everyone's unique, and we can sit together in this unknowing and then we can work through it. And I think that's the reason why I can be effective, because I'm not the same with, you know, any two people. And so from not making the Olympics and then the panic attacks, what I can do now is I could sit with someone and say, You are a human being, you're not a human doing. Human doing was Seth, the swimmer. I need to be good at this thing, because this thing gives me all my self worth, right? And when I didn't have it, my life spun out of control. And that's usually where people are struggling, ironically, in performance is, I didn't get the sale. I didn't this. This didn't happen, you know. And now we start to feel bad about ourself. Our self worth is wrapped up in the doing, and then it starts to spiral. Oh, here we go again, you know. And then you seek for more control, more control, and that's a panic attack. See how it all fits. And so I can feel my way through what people are going through, and meet them where they're at. And so when I when I point out that you're a human being, you're not the doing. So I've been using race car driving a lot today, but let's say you are not a race car driver. I know everyone talks to you like that and about that, but you're a human being that chooses to race a car, okay? And when you see the separation, you will see that human beings, we learn from failure, okay? Hey, I had trained myself because I had started the sport so late. My coach became very, very well known, winning as coach in modern history for the sport. He was in charge of Michael Phelps as all five Olympics, and he said to me, said, what set you apart from others is I saw you get super excited from a really bad race that you lost way more than than a race that was an easy win because you were so focused on learning, and so that's when you flip the equation. So I was really in touch with that human being, you know, I wasn't super clear on it. Otherwise, you know, I would have been able to keep the two separate. But you know, when we learn it's kind of like, you know, one of our biggest growth stages is when we're learning to walk as human beings. The average toddler falls 69 times every single day, but the toddler is not identifying with the doing is this is doing it. Just do it. Do it in the flow state, right? Just constantly in their body, just processing, processing, processing, getting better, getting more experience. And so when we separate the being from the doing, what's interesting is that now that performer and the race car driver, or whatever you know, salesperson, or whoever it might be, they can go into that next opportunity with the pressure, the risk of failure. They can go into it, playing, driving, selling, as if their life depends on it, while simultaneously knowing that their life doesn't depend on it, that it's a doing, it's not a being, and then their level of performance goes way up. So I wish I would have known that.

Ipek Williamson: 00:46:58

Wow. And you know, it's about also understanding that our identity is way more than what we do, but who we are, right? Yes, you know, I said to you when we first had the chat, you are an outlier, not just by results, but by your approach, too. And what would you say to someone who feels like they are starting too late for anything, sports, work, career, life or their paths, or that their path doesn't look like the traditional one. What would you tell them to support, to motivate them?

Seth Pepper: 00:47:50

Well, I always see it as an advantage, because the thing that people struggle with when they do start younger is to get to the next level. A lot of times they're carrying the past with them. So I first of all say, hey, it's actually a great thing that you aren't carrying these old stories, and as long as you don't buy in to those rules, remember the rules, the effort switch is all about. I don't need to be the traditional. I don't need to justify it, you know. And then you also this is important. I like stoicism. Your obstacle is your way. I like to say your resistance is your is your teacher. You're going to be surrounded by people that are going to be pessimistic, you know? They're not going to see your vision, and rather than reject that, or expect people to buy into your idea and try and sell them on this idea, I think it's more helpful. It's more efficient to accept it that this is actually just natural, because human beings, we interpret our external world based on our internal understanding. And so when you go after your dreams, if you have someone in your life, and I'm talking about your loved ones, I'm not talking about people at the coffee shop. I'm talking to people really close to us, sometimes, a lot of times, just don't get it, but they're not here to get it right, you're the one that feels you know this calling. And part of the the obstacle is your way is that when you lean into that obstacle, it's basically, it's an illusion, right? Like even failure is an illusion, as Kobe Bryant says, it's all figment of your imagination, because it's just perspective. And so these people, what if they are negative, if they are critical, what they're really doing is they're expressing their limiting beliefs. Because what they're saying is, how dare you go after your dreams? Because I want to allow myself to go after my dreams. Problems, right? So I think that's a really important part of starting is that you don't need anyone to get it. It's just you. And that's the road to greatness is a lonely road. It just is. That's just the nature of it. Okay, you're trying to do something, you're crying. You know, there's only a few people that are climbed to the top of Mount Everest. And so that's what I feel like. People have labeled me, that as a Sherpa, right? I've been to the top, and then I've helped a lot of others. That's not a common thing to want to go and, you know, do be something great. And so I say that that's an important thing to accept, that no one else in the world needs to get it, it's you, and then you're not carrying those old stories. Is really, really helpful. It's actually efficient, because you can just see things like for me, starting at 14, it might have seemed like a disadvantage because others had started all decade earlier, but it was such an advantage, because I was losing all the time. My life was failure, but I never saw it like that, because everything was learning. I never saw failure. That's such a huge advantage, huge, huge, huge advantage. Did eventually, when things started to catch up, and also, I wasn't being spotted too. Humans like to predict who's going to be the next great one. You see it all the time, who's going to be the next Tiger, who's going to be the next Jordan, who's going to be the next? Humans get it wrong all the time. They never really predict who's going to be the next. So if you're going to be the next great one, no one's going to see you coming. And that's another part of the journey to accept no one ever saw me coming, because I was like a comet shooting through the system. I was going too fast for them to even comprehend that someone could do this, but I lived in a space where I allowed that trajectory to happen and unfold without any resistance, and so that's what I would I would say to someone, is that it's actually a huge advantage, and perspective is something that you always control. It's such a simple thing. We grow up with this metaphor, and I use it more and more, the glass is at either half full or it's half empty. We hear it all the time, but really think about that. It's the same glass and it's the same amount of liquid. You decide what it what that is, you're interpreting it. It's either full or it's empty. That's life. So if you go into it going on, starting late on, starting late, okay, I get the the initial resistance, but eventually you got to see that glass is half full. Look at all the advantages that I have going into this. And I always want to put this disclaimer, I am not giving a motivational speech here. I am talking basic common sense dynamics of seeing people turn something that seemed impossible and impossible, people creating what others will call a miracle. People call things miracles because they don't understand the process that was behind the creation of it. So to me, this is very, very real stuff.

Ipek Williamson: 00:53:27

And said, when I look at starting late in general, I see with starting early, it is most of the times with the encouragement of someone else, when you're starting late, you are starting because you want to, and because of that, you know what you really want to create. And that's a huge advantage, too, in my opinion.

Seth Pepper: 00:53:56

Do you agree? Yes, yes. So So my story of getting on my bike and and riding to practice. Someone might label it like, you know, your parents, why didn't they drive you? But thank goodness they didn't drive me, because every time I got on the bike, it was a choice, right? That's important. A lot of times earlier in our life, we do things, and I would see this, you know, one of my biggest pet peeves in sports, of being an athlete, was parents. Parents, they were destroying their kids. The kids were my buddies, were my friends, and they didn't want to be there. They were taught, you know, torture with a sort of, you know, whether it was usually the parents that were the worst, were the ones that hadn't achieved anything themselves, and they were, you know, basically living vicariously through their children and forcing their kids to do something that the kid was not inspired to do. So when we talk about intrinsic motivation, extrinsic. Motivation. Intrinsic is the calling it comes from within. Extrinsic is your parent or someone else with the idea. And I always say there's not enough pressure or motivation extrinsically on the outside to create greatness. You can't even on a positive, you know, angle of it, say, I'll give you ten million if you go for the Olympics, right? Or you go to the Olympics, otherwise, you're going to be in trouble, right? Fear, none of the external pressures work. They won't you get you anywhere close because to be great at something I you know, I joke, but I'm serious. It's self torture. You're going to go through so much sacrifice, so many ups and downs, and in order to do that, you have to have a calling, at least the start of a calling. I'm not saying that you got to be, you know, sometimes people get this epiphany that's super clear, and you know, others, they discover it as they as they go through, but they know the direction they want to head in, and it becomes clear over time. So, yeah, yeah, I think that that's important,

Ipek Williamson: 00:56:17

absolutely. So now it's time for my signature question for you, which one of the questions in the before you begin section of the ultimate coach book or the ones on the back cover resonates with you most at this point in your Life, and why?

Seth Pepper: 00:56:39

Okay, okay, I would like to combine two. So the first one is, who would I need to be to have miracles show up in my life daily, and who would I need to be to be present as a way of being so I think through the course of our conversation, you know, I feel like what I've tried to do is create a road map, you know, to create what would appear to be a miracle, and to be able to be that miracle, to normalize it and that That happens. It's not an achievement, it's something it's way that, the way you're living your daily life. So if you want to be great, you may not go that, that time, that distance, that achievement right now, but you can live as if the I am statement as a start, so that daily life, living so you become or you're being presently. I am the goal as it's already achieved. And then who would I need to be to be present as a way of being? Well, I go back to the effort switch, setting yourself free. That's what really, really lights me up. That's what really excites me, is that in order for you to be able to be present, you know, in the space of the self help industry, you hear the follow your bliss, which, again, is Joseph Campbell, but I have heard that his actual quote was, follow your blisters, rather than just bliss blisters, right? So to me, in order for me to get into this effort, switch place, I use a metaphor of surfing a wave, because the big wave surfers get into the flow state out of necessity. If they crash, they could die, and they handle a lot of pressure, and I hope they're good at surfing. So those are the three main components. Can you do it? Can you handle the pressure? And then you don't know what's going to happen next? So be present. You know the unknown. And so for for me, it's like, I want to get into a wave that makes you go, Oh, shit. You know, this is a big wave, and to be in that blister state, to be in that discomfort, because I think that discomfort is necessary. There's a there's a jumping off point, a bit scary at first, but then when you drop into the wave, it's what you're meant to do, and you come alive, and the life force flows through you, and you're fully present doing what you need to do. The

Ipek Williamson: 00:59:32

blisters are prerequisite.

Seth Pepper: 00:59:36

Yeah, it's interesting, because people will avoid things that are uncomfortable and go, Well, I've journaled all these things to be comfortable, comfortable, comfortable. And then I'm, you know, come and say, Yeah, but where's the jumping off point? Where's your skin in the game? You got to go, be it. You got to go do it, you know. You got to find it. Even big time performers, I'll be around them. You. And I show them, you know, the whole metaphor of the OH SHIT wave is what I call it. And I'll just say the wave is not big enough make it bigger, because you got to scare yourself. You'll be fine, but you got to be uncomfortable, and then you'll find your bliss while you're actually doing it. But you have to have that scary kind of jump off point

Ipek Williamson: 01:00:23

To get to Bliss, you need to get through the blisters.

Seth Pepper: 01:00:27

Exactly.

Ipek Williamson: 01:00:30

Okay, so Seth, this has been amazing. I have three rapid fire questions for you to end our episode podcast. The first one is your hidden talent. Do you have a skill or talent that might surprise people who know you but didn't know about that?

Seth Pepper: 01:00:53

Oh, wow. A hidden you'd have to ask my maybe my daughters and wife, because you know what, it's probably the thing that drives them crazy. Actually, I'm really good. It's gonna sound so technical and, you know, just like what we've already talked about. So it's nothing super surprising, like, I can't juggle, I, you know, but I'm very good at being present in the moment. I'm very I worked really hard to be able to be completely in the moment, and that can I can forget what I just did just I don't know if that counts, but to me, that's everything, because I work with all these people that want to get more of that. So yeah, I'd probably stay in my own lane. I skateboard, you know, I got my daughters to skateboard. I love skateboarding, so we get out on our longboards and go surf the sidewalks. I think that might be an interesting

Ipek Williamson: 01:01:51

you know, that's a great one. But presence is very powerful and impactful too. Okay. Second question, your favorite way to relax? How do you unwind and recharge when you are not working?

Unknown: 01:02:07

I do more and more mode meditation, you know, I've done the transcendental meditation, you know, process and, you know, other forms of it. So I'm always curious of kind of connecting to this in, you know, the intelligence that connects us all, spending time with animals. You know dogs, cats, you know turtles, chickens, you know So around a lot of wildlife and nature. I think that's usually recharging, and then I'm just completely obsessed with what I do. So if I'm completely transparent, I'm constantly searching for what I call golden I call them golden breadcrumbs, because I feel like life is a scavenger hunt, and all of the clues are right in front of you. You just got to keep going down this path. So even for me, I get into the flow state when I work with people, so I'm really uncomfortable all day long. You know, lot of Oh shit, jumping off points, and then in that experience of not knowing, I'm looking for the next breadcrumb. So Hansel and Gretel, where's the next breadcrumb? And so when I'm even relaxing, I will probably watch documentaries and study other life patterns. And you know, then I take and cut those up and share those with people. So you know that, to me, is is energizing as as taking in all of those, I call it the blueprint of greatness, looking for more clues to this pattern.

Ipek Williamson: 01:03:40

Well, from everything I heard from you, it seems like your superpower is childlike curiosity. You never left that pure curiosity that toddler has, and you continue just feeding your brain with lots of new things. It's so beautiful.

Seth Pepper: 01:04:05

Yeah, I think that's the most important thing for me. I know this. This is a little bit I don't know, maybe edgy for certain people. I said it to my wife, I I said, I don't care what our daughter's grades are, All I care is that they're curious. And so for me, I've been able to do a lot of really wonderful, incredible things. My brother's done the same. And we were just encouraged. We were given the space to explore, which is the greatest gift a parent can give. And there were long periods of confusion. There were a great amount of failure, but behind it all was this curiosity. The great thing about curiosity is that it's neutral. So, you know, a lot of times when we create this resistance, you know, performance equals your ability minus resistance. So we're trying to work on the resistance, reduce it, even eliminate. It at times. How do we do that? We get out of our heads and into our body, because our body's always in the flow, in the moment, right? It's always present. And so when we, when we do that, I think that that's, that's what we're trying to, which is being curious, and that's neutral, yeah.

Ipek Williamson: 01:05:21

And the third and last question, the app you use the most, besides email and social media, what is your go to app these days on your phone or your device?

Seth Pepper: 01:05:35

Well, you know, I've been using a lot of chat, GPT or muse, I think is another or not muse. There's other ones, like perplexity and, you know, different version. I've really enjoyed that. You know, I've taken a while. I think, you know, people are further along, much further along than me. But I think it's really curious to be able to pose these questions and have this conversation with artificial intelligence, and to get back as, I don't know, it just has a way for me of, like, taking great amount, like, for instance, I work with a lot of people that are faith based, and so I work with this major league baseball pitcher, and it had this amazing game, and it was really cool, and it happened Right before Easter, and then I wished him happy Easter, and he said, Christ is risen. I'm just going to tell you, this is my day. So I go, Oh, that's very religious. I don't understand that that well, but I know it means something to him. So I go to chat GPT, and I put in, I'm this performance coach is a major league base, but I put in all the specifics. He wrote this to me. How does this relate to performance? And it was wonderful. I got this really cool answer that makes religion and faith and in performance, and it basically is crisis risen. Is the greatest comeback story there is for someone of faith. I was like, oh, that's what we do. So, yeah, I love chat GPT and being able to use it to speed up the process of this curiosity.

Ipek Williamson: 01:07:12

I so agree with you, and I really love to feed my curiosity through working with AI and chatgpt Seth, your stories, your insights, wisdom, the impact you're making, not only enlighten our minds, but also touch our hearts deeply. It's been an absolute pleasure having you here, sharing your wisdom and the beautiful essence of who you are, I am deeply honored and so grateful to have you. And I'm sure our audience will enjoy this conversation, and they will listen to it multiple times. Thank you so much.

Seth Pepper: 01:07:56

Thank you for sharing this. And I always like to point out that I feel like these are organic experiences of conversation, that you drew this out as much as I did. So I have loved this moment to collaborate with your essence and you know your clarity, because I really am hearing a lot of this for the first time as well. So thank you.

Ipek Williamson: 01:08:20

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Meredith Bell: 01:08:25

Thank you for joining us today. If there's someone you know who could benefit from this conversation, please share this episode with them. Also check out our website, being movement.com, you'll find valuable resources and links to connect to an engaging and wonderfully supportive community. Together, we can inspire and support each other on the path to a greater understanding of being until next time, take care and be kind to yourself. You.